Spirit Walker, Chap 21 spoilers

[boballab]

Good ending I thought to book one. Now I wish we could have been a fly on the wall for that little get together between the Shadow Fox and Dana, hopefully Book 2 will start off with seeing what has been happening in Haven while Kyv has been away.

[dellstart]

Yeah.Dittos , the spy master's words.

Think do I, that having fur at least superficially, is going to go along way to defuse the hostility between them.Then again , I could see the shadowfox turning her into a shadowfox arcan as well, just as to be able to have something over her.Though what she wants Danna for , more than shes already doing I don't know.any ideas?

war is coming , and who would have thought that the Arcans would have been the aggressors?Guess you have to do what it takes.

Stupid question - what exactly has Kyv learnt from Clover, when it comes to asking from spirits? Clover admits that the fox is really difficult and tricksy character to deal with.Kev , doesn't really have the option of asking someone else. plus whats meant by the fact , that ALL the spirits are happy?

[IdiotPaste]

The shadow fox has her claws in Dana. Interesting. Another shadow fox arcan in the works or is it simply Dana's turn to gain some wisdom?

I am curious about the Shadow Walker. Fel's epic battle scenes have always been alot of fun to read, but now the big battles will be taking place far away from Kyven and crew. While I'll miss the grand struggle between armies, I think reading about Kyven's little piece of the very large picture will be quite enjoyable.

I look forward to reading whatever Fel chooses to put forth next. Hell, he could decide to write a coloring book next and I'd read that just as voraciously as anything else he's written.

Cheers Fel!

[Mad Monk]

Good ending I thought to book one. Now I wish we could have been a fly on the wall for that little get together between the Shadow Fox and Dana, hopefully Book 2 will start off with seeing what has been happening in Haven while Kyv has been away.

Agree that I would like to find out about the deal between the shadow fox and Dana. I suspect that the fox dealt with Dana's fears of being alone, surrounded by Arcans. Interesting twist in putting Haven having to attack the Humans, hopefully the surprise will help keep the Arcans alive.

I also suspect an oncoming deal between the Shamen and Fleur.

[Mizriath]

Thanks Fel... for the great read from the bottom of my heart.

You have set the stage for the war.... and I was led to believe the secret was the Loremasters are going to send troops to wage war on the Arcans.... and i was flummoxed when they are actually trying to recreate the machine.

So Arcans is going to wage a war against the Loremasters instead of the other way. I appreciate if Fel or someone could give a pictorial map of where is where ..... my brains is never good with directions.

[boballab]

The Loremasters are planning to attack the Arcans just not in the classical sense. They don't know about Haven yet, but they do know there is a lot of "wild" Arcans to the west of Noram. Their plan is actually split into 3 parts:

1. Take over the area that we know as the Midwest and kill as many "wild" Arcans as they can.

2. They want to use the machine that made Arcans in the first place to either:
a. Modify existing Arcans or
b. Make new ones that are more to their liking.

3. Remake the machine that caused the Breach to make new crystals.

What the Arcans are going to do is actually what in a tactical situation is called a spoiling attack. For those that don't know a spoiling attack is where a defender attacks the attacker just as they are preparing to attack to throw off the attack. Basically its a case of the best defense is offense.

As to the Shadow Fox and Dana. Hmm I think its both a way to show her wisdom and to make more of her children. All along its been my belief that the Shadowfox has been basically doing selective breeding of Kyven's family. We know spirits do interact with humans even though the humans don't know it. An example is the apprentice having his hand steadied by the cat spirit in chapter 1. We don't know anything of Dana's past or that she also might have a Spirit that has been watching over her and her family like the Shadowfox has with Kyv's.

[hoppy]

The Loremasters are planning to attack the Arcans just not in the classical sense. They don't know about Haven yet, but they do know there is a lot of "wild" Arcans to the west of Noram. Their plan is actually split into 3 parts:

1. Take over the area that we know as the Midwest and kill as many "wild" Arcans as they can.

2. They want to use the machine that made Arcans in the first place to either:
a. Modify existing Arcans or
b. Make new ones that are more to their liking.

3. Remake the machine that caused the Breach to make new crystals.

agreed+
2.c Use the knowledge gained from the Arcan machines to build a weapon against arcans.

What the Arcans are going to do is actually what in a tactical situation is called a spoiling attack. For those that don't know a spoiling attack is where a defender attacks the attacker just as they are preparing to attack to throw off the attack. Basically its a case of the best defense is offense.

Agreed, although maybe I missed it, but I don't remember them saying anything about the arcans attacking, just opposing.

As to the Shadow Fox and Dana. Hmm I think its both a way to show her wisdom and to make more of her children. All along its been my belief that the Shadowfox has been basically doing selective breeding of Kyven's family. We know spirits do interact with humans even though the humans don't know it. An example is the apprentice having his hand steadied by the cat spirit in chapter 1. We don't know anything of Dana's past or that she also might have a Spirit that has been watching over her and her family like the Shadowfox has with Kyv's.

I lean towards a whole breeding program my self, Especially since humans are not that prolific(maturation time is long and birthrate is low.)

[ANTIcarrot]

As to the Shadow Fox and Dana. Hmm I think its both a way to show her wisdom and to make more of her children.

That might actually be an exceptionally dangerous gamble for Shadowfox to take. Dana's behavior throughout the story can be explained by the simple female drive to have children of her own species. Having read all of Fel's past works, we all know there's a near zero chance of Kyven ending up as a human married to Dana. She probably knows this too, but she probably lives in hope of that one slim chance that he will change, just for her, which is another well documented female behavior. If Shadowfox forced the issue (by taking away her human form for example) it would be very possible for Dana to go off the deep end and take some quite drastic action. Now when Kyven *really* hated Shadowfox, he didn't know of a way to even harm her, let alone kill her. And right now Dana doesn't know of a way to harm a spirit either. But she's soon going to learn about a way of severely harming *lots* of them...

It'll be interesting how closely the Loremasters chose to copy the arcan-machine. We were told it needed a human to make an arcan. What if humans were the only readily available type of useful being though? If it merely requires a sentient for the process, an arcan could serve just as well. The Loremasters probably *can* do much better than the ancients in this case. With no vehicles or heavy equipment to mandate human shape for the operators, they have a lot more flexibility.

Though the arcan and crystal machine do raise awkward questions.
(1) These are both achievements of America at the very height of it's technological power. If the loremasters can duplicate this, why can't they duplicate other things that civilisation could make, like moon rockets, fusion reactors, or nukes? If they don't want to, can other well organised groups do such things?
(2) How come (exactly) they arcans can manufacture crystals without a care in the world, but anytime humans do it the project is doomed to failure? It is an established principle that shamans and crystal devices can duplicate anything the other can do. Even if we accept the first accident, it's going to be impossible for the Loremasters to duplicate the original machine exactly. Even if they had a copy of the blueprints, different materials, technologies, project-goals, and team leaders would lead to a different machine. It need not share the same flaws as the old one.

And finally it's nice to see dear old Blighty survived. Gotta wonder about the politics around that sale though. The Loremasters seem to have got what they think of as good weapons. I wonder if the Europeans might consider these cast offs instead? As opposed to things like cannons, rockets, revolvers, volley guns, or land mines. Which the Loremasters might find more useful.

[hoppy]

**snip**

And finally it's nice to see dear old Blighty survived. Gotta wonder about the politics around that sale though. The Loremasters seem to have got what they think of as good weapons. I wonder if the Europeans might consider these cast offs instead? As opposed to things like cannons, rockets, revolvers, volley guns, or land mines. Which the Loremasters might find more useful.

I doubt it. They might be old or low quality but if there are higher-tech weapons in useful quantities in Europe I would think the loremasters could get rifles much easier.

[ANTIcarrot]

I doubt it. They might be old or low quality but if there are higher-tech weapons in useful quantities in Europe I would think the loremasters could get rifles much easier.

The loremasters are this world's equivalent of OPEC. Just like OPEC they are powerful because of the resources they control. Just like OPEC they are dangerous psychotic fundamentalist bigots that are completely out of touch with reality. A fact that is going to be fairly obvious to any outsider's perspective. Especially to nations that are much more dependent on technology and science; and hence a rational view of reality. When has any nation ever sold people like that best weapons? Or any weapons when they could possibly avoid it?

The loremasters also:

• Don't know what they're walking into. Why buy more expensive weapons than they think will be needed?
• Seem to be the type to think Our Faith In The Trinity Our God will protect them - and hence they don't really need good weapons.
• Already have magical area support weapons which they have more experience with.
• Are basically a bunch of jumped up magic users aren't going to understand the difference between and musket and a minigun

[hoppy]

I doubt it. They might be old or low quality but if there are higher-tech weapons in useful quantities in Europe I would think the loremasters could get rifles much easier.

The loremasters are this world's equivalent of OPEC. Just like OPEC they are powerful because of the resources they control. Just like OPEC they are dangerous psychotic fundamentalist bigots that are completely out of touch with reality. A fact that is going to be fairly obvious to any outsider's perspective. Especially to nations that are much more dependent on technology and science; and hence a rational view of reality. When has any nation ever sold people like that best weapons? Or any weapons when they could possibly avoid it?

Two words, "trade muskets" traders sold 1000nds of these crappy smooth bore flintlock guns to Indians. They probably were a step down for the Indians from bows. But the point is, that the traders did not think so(they also sold them to noob or poor trappers and settlers.)

The loremasters also:

• Don't know what they're walking into. Why buy more expensive weapons than they think will be needed?
• Seem to be the type to think Our Faith In The Trinity Our God will protect them - and hence they don't really need good weapons.
• Already have magical area support weapons which they have more experience with.
• Are basically a bunch of jumped up magic users aren't going to understand the difference between and musket and a minigun

How about this:

• They are already worried about the arcans organizing and learning(abet in theory.)
• It sounded to me like the Loremasters traded allot of crystals and had a hard time getting these rifles, which they would not do if they knew there were better weapons around(bargaining point.)
• The Loremasters did not dominate Norram by being pushovers.

[andy_t_roo]

In spirit walker, chapter 21, page 18, the ghost is described as both opaque and partially see through -- i think that is meant to read "translucent", rather than "opaque".