Chap 8 Spoilers

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hoppy
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by hoppy »

boballab wrote:You overlooked one little point though, the Consortium doesn't give a fig about their neutrality. Also unlike Switzerland which had a very strong defensive postion, Moridon is wide open to attack, that is why Siyhaa wanted that interdictor resevered. So in the end Moridon will have a choice: Join the Consortium side or Join Jason's, everyone that tries to stay neutral will be in a bad position by the time the war is over. If the Consortium wins they will get over run by them. If Jason's side wins do you really think Dahnai will look favorably on them and don't forget the Urumi attitude. So if they stay neutral and Jason's side wins Dahnai and the Urumi Queen could outlaw use of Moridons bank's which would not be good for business, besides with the Interdictor/stargate setup the Faey/Urumi alliance has a trade monopoly churning up credits.
  • We don't know what the Moridons defenses are. If their military is any thing like their personal and information security they will be a very hard nut to crack.
  • The Moridons may see the Consortium as thieves and usurists and may be the least likely to want to steal karinne technology.
  • The Empress is likely to see this as moridons being moridons.
  • A point you missed about Switzerland is that many of the German High command had Swiss bank accounts.
boballab
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by boballab »

hoppy wrote:
  • We don't know what the Moridons defenses are. If their military is any thing like their personal and information security they will be a very hard nut to crack.
  • The Moridons may see the Consortium as thieves and usurists and may be the least likely to want to steal karinne technology.
  • The Empress is likely to see this as moridons being moridons.
  • A point you missed about Switzerland is that many of the German High command had Swiss bank accounts.
Unless the Morridons have 25000+ ships hidden away they will be easy to take over. The Consortium parks 10000 ships in and around Moridon and say surrender or become nuclear waste. Either way Morridon is out of the banking business disrupting the econimies of their enemies. Remember without the Interdictors the Imperium/Urumi/Karrine combined fleets can't face the Consortium Fleet. This is a war of survival and Dahnai and the Urumi will not be forgiving to those that don't side with them.

The point of the German High Command actually is a point in favor of the Moridons having to side with Jason. Unlike the Germans the Consortium doesn't bank on Morridon. Before all the other sector powers had to respect Moridon Neutrality because they all used Morridon banking and any attempt to take over would cause all the other powers to oppose them the Consortium doesn't care if all the sector powers oppose them because their ultimate goal is total conquest just like they did in three other Galaxies and what they are trying to do in the Andromeda Galaxy.
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lapland
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by lapland »

The consortium won't try to attack the Morridons first because they want to keep the rest of the galaxy neutral until they have taken care of the Kerrines. They announced to the galaxy that the Kerines are their enemy, not the rest of the galaxy. Although the consortium doesn't care about the Morridons they don't want the initial fight to be bigger then it has to be. They know the Morridons are supported by EVERYONE in the galaxy so they aren't going to attack them until it's unavoidable. Once it is unavoidable, then the Morridons had better be ready to make a decision, and quickly. It does take two days for the interdictor to get up and ready and if a ship is cloaked inside the shield it could be pretty hard to clear them out once the interdictor is up and operational. Just hide well, and in two days you have the run of the planet after you take out the star gate, and start pounding anything in sight. As long as there aren't any Kerinne ships in orbit, not much else can stop a consortium ship.
boballab
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by boballab »

lapland wrote:The consortium won't try to attack the Morridons first because they want to keep the rest of the galaxy neutral until they have taken care of the Kerrines. They announced to the galaxy that the Kerines are their enemy, not the rest of the galaxy. Although the consortium doesn't care about the Morridons they don't want the initial fight to be bigger then it has to be. They know the Morridons are supported by EVERYONE in the galaxy so they aren't going to attack them until it's unavoidable. Once it is unavoidable, then the Morridons had better be ready to make a decision, and quickly. It does take two days for the interdictor to get up and ready and if a ship is cloaked inside the shield it could be pretty hard to clear them out once the interdictor is up and operational. Just hide well, and in two days you have the run of the planet after you take out the star gate, and start pounding anything in sight. As long as there aren't any Kerinne ships in orbit, not much else can stop a consortium ship.
You need to think what the Consortium was planning to do with 30000+ ships without considering the Interdictors. They were planning just to swamp the Imperium/Karinnes with ships so that there would be no reinforcements when they attacked Karis. Now with the Interdictors in play they can't do that, they can't get to one of the Imperium/Karinne/urumi planets. Now place yourself in the Consortium commanders shoes. You can blackmail the Skaa and Alliance with the double dealing they have been doing. They could let that info slip to the other sector powers forcing the Skaa and Alliance into totally being in the Consortium camp. Jason already considers them enemies. The Skaa and the Alliance were the next two largest powers after the Urumi and the Imperium. The rest of the powers in the sector are smaller and are afraid of being eaten up either by the Consortium, the Skaa or the Alliance. So now you can't attack the Imperium/Urumi/Karinnes directly so you do it indirectly. The only place they can do that is Moridon, until they find a way around the interdictors. It could also be a way to fracture the houses of the Imperium. Would all the Houses that use Moridon to bank with so the Empress can't find all their assets be fine with having all of it go poof with the loss of that planet? That could severly hurt a lot of the Faey houses with that economic hit and might cause the Empress to have to "bailout" those houses to keep them from failing. So since you can't attack them directly you hurt their economies and take out all the little fish and isolate the Imperium/Karinne/Urumi alliance behind their Interdictors. This also gives the Consortium access to planetary resources of those conquored smaller powers.

The initial Consortium plan was to just swamp the Imperium/Karinnes and then go after everyone else once they took them out. Now they have a couple choices:

1. sit on their asses while trying to find a way around the Interdictors while being nibbled to death by the Karinnes. Meanwhile trying to manipulate the rest of the secotr to side with you.

2. Reverse your plan, take everyone else out and set up camp while researching a way around the Interdictors. This has the bonus of might drawing their enemies out of their safe havens and attack where you can face them with overwhelming numbers. It also gives you access to Plantary resources such as food, minerals and water. It also takes it away from your enemies.

3. Give up and go home.

Those are the choices the Consortium has, this war has turned into nothing but a giant castle siege. Just go back and look at how most succesful castle sieges were won. They weren't won by charging head long into the defense but be keeping them behind their walls while you took over the territory around the castle isolating it. You then starved the defenders under because they couldn't feed themselves for long. Now it wouldn't happen over night but if the Consortium was smart you leave the Imperium/Karinnes/Urumi behind their Interdictors while you conqueor the rest of the sector. Now eventually the Imperium/Karinnes/Urumi would breed themselves out of what they could feed themselves. That has been one of the Imperium's weaknesses all along, that was why they took over Earth, they were on the verge of having a food shortage. Remember the Faey don't believe in birth control they will eventually outgrow their current resources.

Their is also another historical reference of what happens to a "neutral" country when they just happen to get in the way of one of two combatants, It also comes from WWII. When Germany invaded Poland in 1939 Britain and France declared war on Germany and Germany reciprocated but fighting didn't breakout right a way between them. It wasn't until 1940 when Germany launced its attack against France through the Ardennes Forest on one end of the Maginot Line and through "neutral" Belgium and Netherlands on the other end. The Germans flanked both ends of the heavily defended Maginot line and the French believed that Hitler would respect Beligum neutrality so didn't build defences there. Well we know how well that worked out for the neutral Netherlands and Belgium and for France that relied on that neutrality.

Another example of what happens to a "neutral" during a war were one side decides he needs what you have is Norway from WWII.
Norway, though neutral, was considered strategically important for both sides of the war for two main reasons. First was the importance of the port of Narvik, from which large quantities of Swedish iron ore, on which Germany depended, were exported; this route was especially important during the winter months when the Baltic Sea was frozen over
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Campaign
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lapland
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by lapland »

The consortium would be stupid to attack the moridons. Instead of having the Imperium/Kerinnes and a few others on the opposing side, a single strike on the Moridons would insure anger from every race in the galaxy. Jasons greatest wish would come true because he would have everyone siding with him againstthe great enemy.

The Moridons will remain nuetral until the Consortium succefully escapes Jason's blockade. Then they will see their great threat and others will as well. Jason alone can fight them and even the often believed neutral spys of the galaxy are siding with him, saying they are the greatest threat ever to face the galaxy. Once they have escaped Jasons trap, everyone will be scrambling for an interdictor. Unless they truely believe the Consortium. The galaxy will go to war, and not everyone will be on Jason's side. But the Moridons are not dumb. They will find a way to buy their protection, and remain neutral while protected from the invaders who don't care about sides.

You keep insisting on looking at our history. The neutral powers of WWII are no image to look at in this situation. The Germans were still neighbors of the neutral powers of WWII. The Consortium are not neighbors and have no relationship with them, but everyone else in the galaxy does. Did the neutral powers of the world survive the invasion of Earth by the Imperium? But then, the Imperium didn't have a powerful foe to tangle with. If they did, they certainly wouldn't have tried taking it all at once. Neutral powers can remain neutral as long as you don't mess with them. Their best stratagy is to leave the Moridons alone, because you mess with EVERYONE if you mess with them. Concentrate the fight on the known enemy and try to convence others of your peaceful intent, until the cat is completely out of the bag.

Germany made deals with Russia to keep from having to spread his troups too thin until he was ready to take them on. If your starting a war, don't take on too big a target at once. Kerinnes are the biggest, badest and most difficult target. The others are a nucence. But the Consortium knows that they have no choice but go after Kerinnes, why would they want to take on everyone else at the same time?

Will it hurt some of the Imperim if you hit Moridon? Sure, but Jason has already announced that he was going to help everyone and they all have forwarning that the invasion is coming. If they don't believe Moridon is safe, pull your money out now and preserve it. Moridon isn't key to the survival of the Imperium, unless the Consortium attacks it. Then the enemies will unite against a greater foe and the Consortium will have battles on all fronts at once.
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dellstart
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by dellstart »

lapland wrote:The consortium would be stupid to attack the moridons. Instead of having the Imperium/Kerinnes and a few others on the opposing side, a single strike on the Moridons would insure anger from every race in the galaxy. Jasons greatest wish would come true because he would have everyone siding with him againstthe great enemy.

The Moridons will remain nuetral until the Consortium succefully escapes Jason's blockade. Then they will see their great threat and others will as well. Jason alone can fight them and even the often believed neutral spys of the galaxy are siding with him, saying they are the greatest threat ever to face the galaxy. Once they have escaped Jasons trap, everyone will be scrambling for an interdictor. Unless they truely believe the Consortium. The galaxy will go to war, and not everyone will be on Jason's side. But the Moridons are not dumb. They will find a way to buy their protection, and remain neutral while protected from the invaders who don't care about sides.

You keep insisting on looking at our history. The neutral powers of WWII are no image to look at in this situation. The Germans were still neighbors of the neutral powers of WWII. The Consortium are not neighbors and have no relationship with them, but everyone else in the galaxy does. Did the neutral powers of the world survive the invasion of Earth by the Imperium? But then, the Imperium didn't have a powerful foe to tangle with. If they did, they certainly wouldn't have tried taking it all at once. Neutral powers can remain neutral as long as you don't mess with them. Their best stratagy is to leave the Moridons alone, because you mess with EVERYONE if you mess with them. Concentrate the fight on the known enemy and try to convence others of your peaceful intent, until the cat is completely out of the bag.

Germany made deals with Russia to keep from having to spread his troups too thin until he was ready to take them on. If your starting a war, don't take on too big a target at once. Kerinnes are the biggest, badest and most difficult target. The others are a nucence. But the Consortium knows that they have no choice but go after Kerinnes, why would they want to take on everyone else at the same time?

Will it hurt some of the Imperim if you hit Moridon? Sure, but Jason has already announced that he was going to help everyone and they all have forwarning that the invasion is coming. If they don't believe Moridon is safe, pull your money out now and preserve it. Moridon isn't key to the survival of the Imperium, unless the Consortium attacks it. Then the enemies will unite against a greater foe and the Consortium will have battles on all fronts at once.

Kind of like the mongol hordes of warcraf er Genghis khan.
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dellstart
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by dellstart »

boballab wrote:
lapland wrote:The consortium won't try to attack the Morridons first because they want to keep the rest of the galaxy neutral until they have taken care of the Kerrines. They announced to the galaxy that the Kerines are their enemy, not the rest of the galaxy. Although the consortium doesn't care about the Morridons they don't want the initial fight to be bigger then it has to be. They know the Morridons are supported by EVERYONE in the galaxy so they aren't going to attack them until it's unavoidable. Once it is unavoidable, then the Morridons had better be ready to make a decision, and quickly. It does take two days for the interdictor to get up and ready and if a ship is cloaked inside the shield it could be pretty hard to clear them out once the interdictor is up and operational. Just hide well, and in two days you have the run of the planet after you take out the star gate, and start pounding anything in sight. As long as there aren't any Kerinne ships in orbit, not much else can stop a consortium ship.
You need to think what the Consortium was planning to do with 30000+ ships without considering the Interdictors. They were planning just to swamp the Imperium/Karinnes with ships so that there would be no reinforcements when they attacked Karis. Now with the Interdictors in play they can't do that, they can't get to one of the Imperium/Karinne/urumi planets. Now place yourself in the Consortium commanders shoes. You can blackmail the Skaa and Alliance with the double dealing they have been doing. They could let that info slip to the other sector powers forcing the Skaa and Alliance into totally being in the Consortium camp. Jason already considers them enemies. The Skaa and the Alliance were the next two largest powers after the Urumi and the Imperium. The rest of the powers in the sector are smaller and are afraid of being eaten up either by the Consortium, the Skaa or the Alliance. So now you can't attack the Imperium/Urumi/Karinnes directly so you do it indirectly. The only place they can do that is Moridon, until they find a way around the interdictors. It could also be a way to fracture the houses of the Imperium. Would all the Houses that use Moridon to bank with so the Empress can't find all their assets be fine with having all of it go poof with the loss of that planet? That could severly hurt a lot of the Faey houses with that economic hit and might cause the Empress to have to "bailout" those houses to keep them from failing. So since you can't attack them directly you hurt their economies and take out all the little fish and isolate the Imperium/Karinne/Urumi alliance behind their Interdictors. This also gives the Consortium access to planetary resources of those conquored smaller powers.

The initial Consortium plan was to just swamp the Imperium/Karinnes and then go after everyone else once they took them out. Now they have a couple choices:

1. sit on their asses while trying to find a way around the Interdictors while being nibbled to death by the Karinnes. Meanwhile trying to manipulate the rest of the secotr to side with you.

2. Reverse your plan, take everyone else out and set up camp while researching a way around the Interdictors. This has the bonus of might drawing their enemies out of their safe havens and attack where you can face them with overwhelming numbers. It also gives you access to Plantary resources such as food, minerals and water. It also takes it away from your enemies.

3. Give up and go home.

Those are the choices the Consortium has, this war has turned into nothing but a giant castle siege. Just go back and look at how most succesful castle sieges were won. They weren't won by charging head long into the defense but be keeping them behind their walls while you took over the territory around the castle isolating it. You then starved the defenders under because they couldn't feed themselves for long. Now it wouldn't happen over night but if the Consortium was smart you leave the Imperium/Karinnes/Urumi behind their Interdictors while you conqueor the rest of the sector. Now eventually the Imperium/Karinnes/Urumi would breed themselves out of what they could feed themselves. That has been one of the Imperium's weaknesses all along, that was why they took over Earth, they were on the verge of having a food shortage. Remember the Faey don't believe in birth control they will eventually outgrow their current resources.

Their is also another historical reference of what happens to a "neutral" country when they just happen to get in the way of one of two combatants, It also comes from WWII. When Germany invaded Poland in 1939 Britain and France declared war on Germany and Germany reciprocated but fighting didn't breakout right a way between them. It wasn't until 1940 when Germany launced its attack against France through the Ardennes Forest on one end of the Maginot Line and through "neutral" Belgium and Netherlands on the other end. The Germans flanked both ends of the heavily defended Maginot line and the French believed that Hitler would respect Beligum neutrality so didn't build defences there. Well we know how well that worked out for the neutral Netherlands and Belgium and for France that relied on that neutrality.

Another example of what happens to a "neutral" during a war were one side decides he needs what you have is Norway from WWII.
Norway, though neutral, was considered strategically important for both sides of the war for two main reasons. First was the importance of the port of Narvik, from which large quantities of Swedish iron ore, on which Germany depended, were exported; this route was especially important during the winter months when the Baltic Sea was frozen over
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Campaign
so we are looking at a centuries long protracted castle siege? cause think do i , that option two is going to be game plan over here.
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expedient
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by expedient »

dellstart wrote:so we are looking at a centuries long protracted castle siege? cause think do i , that option two is going to be game plan over here.
I've been thinking along similar lines. How long does everyone think the war will last?

The biggest wild card are the interdictors, when (if?) they are compromised. If the Consortium defeats the technology early then they have the advantage of more and generally better equipment except at Karis itself and the much smaller number of Karinne/Kimdori ships. If the Karinne Allies have time then they could potentially build a better fleet, or some other game changer such as more Generation-CBIM powered weaponry.

Three years?

Then the Consortium could just send more ships later from one of their other galaxies to try again... :evil:
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hoppy
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by hoppy »

expedient wrote:
dellstart wrote:so we are looking at a centuries long protracted castle siege? cause think do i , that option two is going to be game plan over here.
I've been thinking along similar lines. How long does everyone think the war will last?

The biggest wild card are the interdictors, when (if?) they are compromised. If the Consortium defeats the technology early then they have the advantage of more and generally better equipment except at Karis itself and the much smaller number of Karinne/Kimdori ships. If the Karinne Allies have time then they could potentially build a better fleet, or some other game changer such as more Generation-CBIM powered weaponry.

Three years?

Then the Consortium could just send more ships later from one of their other galaxies to try again... :evil:
Well they also just galvanized the research establishments of every one else plus most their tech seems derived from Karinne interrogations. That does not bode well for more advances from them. Every one else though now has that tech and will be trying to top it.
cagefire2000
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by cagefire2000 »

OK, I think this is a thread for unification, it doesn't say in the title, but I found it listed after the chapter 7 unification thread so I assume so. I don't know if this is the right board or thread to post this, but I just joined the forum and can't seem to start a new thread, or find a thread that seems to fit. On regular story sites I'd post this in a review.

Anyway, I have literally just finished reading Unification on weavespinner and I had to comment on it so I looked around and found this forum. First of all, if Fel is reading this, I'd just like to say how much I enjoy this series. I'm not sure if your other series are good or not as I haven't read them yet, but I do like this one. I first read the first fic a few months ago, and didn't realize there were two other parts to it until recently. I love the technology and so many other aspects of this.

Regarding the story, I do kinda wish you'd lighten up on the sex talk a little though, not that it's not good, but it does seem to be talked about more than the plot sometimes. I mean seriously though, I've lost count of how many times he's stopped and talked about the faey's view on sex, I mean I personally only needed it explained once, not multiple times throughout the series. Or in unification how jason keeps reflecting on how his views have become more faey and less human. I think he must've repeated that two or three times. Furthermore I can't seem to go through a single chapter without jason stopping everything he was doing and having sex seemingly dozens of times. Frankly it's amazing any of the faey get anything done with the way they seem to stop and have sex at every opportunity. It's also no wonder why they have such trouble with feeding their population. I mean at first I thought the faey's view on sex was interesting, but it kinda got old. I'd rather read about the story rather than watch him pretty much have an orgy every five minutes. Seriously, I wonder how much of the story is story at this point, and how much is him stopping to have sex. It's really gotten to the point where I've had to start skipping past those parts so I can actually get back to the story. Seriously, I'm not sure about this or not, but when I was reading this last one, I could swear you had almost entire chapters almost entirely devoted to all the characters having sex in every possible combination. Oh well, at least you don't go into graphic detail every time, that's /really/ drag out the story.

At any rate, I do love the plot and please keep up the good work, and I'm going to read the latest chapters of the next story which I just found on this forum.
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dellstart
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by dellstart »

was rereading subjugation (chap 2) and came across this.

"To Jason, death was better. To be reprogrammed like that, to do what they wanted him to do, but he felt that somehow, deep inside himself, to know what they had done to him…that was the ultimate torture."

That got me to thinking and wondering, about what ghosts our other Terran generation might be carrying? whilst she has been reprogrammed and seems to coping, without a doubt there's a lot of baggage there , that we haven't even begun to explore.

yay post 700
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dellstart
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Re: Chap 8 Spoilers

Post by dellstart »

cagefire2000 wrote:OK, I think this is a thread for unification, it doesn't say in the title, but I found it listed after the chapter 7 unification thread so I assume so. I don't know if this is the right board or thread to post this, but I just joined the forum and can't seem to start a new thread, or find a thread that seems to fit. On regular story sites I'd post this in a review.

Anyway, I have literally just finished reading Unification on weavespinner and I had to comment on it so I looked around and found this forum. First of all, if Fel is reading this, I'd just like to say how much I enjoy this series. I'm not sure if your other series are good or not as I haven't read them yet, but I do like this one. I first read the first fic a few months ago, and didn't realize there were two other parts to it until recently. I love the technology and so many other aspects of this.

Regarding the story, I do kinda wish you'd lighten up on the sex talk a little though, not that it's not good, but it does seem to be talked about more than the plot sometimes. I mean seriously though, I've lost count of how many times he's stopped and talked about the faey's view on sex, I mean I personally only needed it explained once, not multiple times throughout the series. Or in unification how jason keeps reflecting on how his views have become more faey and less human. I think he must've repeated that two or three times. Furthermore I can't seem to go through a single chapter without jason stopping everything he was doing and having sex seemingly dozens of times. Frankly it's amazing any of the faey get anything done with the way they seem to stop and have sex at every opportunity. It's also no wonder why they have such trouble with feeding their population. I mean at first I thought the faey's view on sex was interesting, but it kinda got old. I'd rather read about the story rather than watch him pretty much have an orgy every five minutes. Seriously, I wonder how much of the story is story at this point, and how much is him stopping to have sex. It's really gotten to the point where I've had to start skipping past those parts so I can actually get back to the story. Seriously, I'm not sure about this or not, but when I was reading this last one, I could swear you had almost entire chapters almost entirely devoted to all the characters having sex in every possible combination. Oh well, at least you don't go into graphic detail every time, that's /really/ drag out the story.

At any rate, I do love the plot and please keep up the good work, and I'm going to read the latest chapters of the next story which I just found on this forum.

shrugs.
I like it , and it fits in the story but ,we can agree to disagree :wink:
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