Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

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dellstart
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Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by dellstart »

I will believe it when i see it! :roll:


LOS ANGELES - The next version of Microsoft Windows, the software that defines the computing experience for most people, will nag users much less than its much-maligned predecessor, Vista. PC users will be able to test the new edition early next year.

The world's largest software maker also is making Word, Excel and other key elements of Office — its flagship "productivity" programs — able to run in a Web browser. The move is meant to help confront rivals such as Google Inc. that offer free word processing and spreadsheet programs online, threatening one of Microsoft Corp.'s most precious profit centers.

The Windows and Office news came Tuesday at a Microsoft conference for software developers.

The forthcoming Windows 7 will let users choose to see fewer alerts and warnings from their computers. Rampant notifications alerting people to security risks irked many Vista users.

"We had all the best intentions of helping to secure the PC platform even more, particularly for novice PC users who needed to be protected," said Steven Sinofsky, a senior vice president in Microsoft's Windows group. But Sinofsky acknowledged that Microsoft needed to work more closely with outside companies to avoid a similar mess this time.

Michael Silver, an analyst for Gartner Inc., said a smoother debut for Windows 7 is critical for Microsoft.

"The real hurdle is to get Vista's reputation behind them," he said.

Windows 7 keeps some of the significant design changes that debuted in Vista, but tosses out others.

In an interview, Julie Larson-Green, a Windows vice president, offered one small example: In Vista, Microsoft took the "add printer" feature out of the Start menu, but is restoring it in Windows 7 after users complained.

Larson-Green said some changes in Vista made sense to developers but weren't fully tested on actual PC users — a misstep she seems committed not to repeat.

With Windows 7, Microsoft is also making subtle but useful changes to the task bar along the bottom of the screen. The designers have removed redundant buttons that launch applications. When users roll over a program's icon in the task bar, it will be easier to see how many documents are open, and switch between them.

Microsoft also showed off "jumplists," a quick way of organizing recently used files or popular program features. And it introduced a concept called "libraries," which automatically collects similar files scattered across PCs on a home network and displays them together in a single folder. That could be handy for organizing a family's digital photos stored in disparate places.

Addressing another complaint about Vista, Microsoft said Windows 7 will be faster and need less memory to run. Vista generally needs costlier hardware configurations than the older Windows XP.

Sinofsky held up a "netbook" — a low-cost, low-power laptop that would have a hard time running Vista — and said it's working with Windows 7.

Microsoft's early 2009 target for people to begin toying with Windows 7 is striking because the Redmond, Wash.-based company promised deadlines it couldn't keep when it was developing Vista. Microsoft is trying hard to avoid a similar debacle this time. Sinofsky said there is no date yet for the next milestone, a "release to manufacturing" version of Windows 7, but reiterated that the system is set to go on sale in early 2010.

Silver, the analyst, noted that Windows Vista rejigged complex aspects of the software's plumbing, while Windows 7 is largely a cosmetic overhaul. That might spare this launch from many of the compatibility programs that dogged Vista.

Silver was impressed by how Windows 7 handles home networking with fewer headaches than Vista or XP. A big improvement on that front could help keep customers who consider ditching Windows, swayed by Apple Inc.'s claims that such tasks are easier on a Mac.

Building on a broader strategy to meld the best elements of Web and desktop software, Microsoft also showed off lightweight versions of Word, Excel, PowerPoint and OneNote software that work in Web browsers and look as they normally do, but don't have to be installed on a PC.

The new programs were running "in the cloud" on the new Windows Azure system Microsoft unveiled Monday, a move aimed at helping it catch up with Google and other nimbler Web companies. Azure lets Microsoft run software and store data in its own massive data centers around the world, instead of requiring people to install programs on their own PCs.

The Office Web programs represent what Microsoft believes is a more polished take on what Google has tried. Microsoft's online Office programs let people work on a document at the same time, and make it easier to publish charts and PowerPoint presentations to blogs with few clicks.

The Web software, to be offered without charge for regular PC users, will launch with the next version of Office. No date has been set.

Silver, the analyst, said he had always expected Microsoft to build on its rudimentary Web Office tools, and noted that the company still has time to tinker, because relatively few people use Google's online documents offering today.

The peek at the new programs didn't address his biggest concern, though: whether Microsoft can promote Web versions without undercutting its very lucrative desktop software business.
Spec8472
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Spec8472 »

I still don't see why people blame Windows for most of the issues that arise.

"My PC crashes" is usually a result of you installing (or having installed by the retailer) some piece of software that's doing Bad Stuff. Unsuprisingly, Mac OSX gets just as unstable when you do similar things.

I sit next to a linux and mac guy at work and we rib each other occasionally about each other's OSs. Our ongoing low-level competition is about stability - suffice to say his initial snarky comments earlier this year about Windows Server 2008 (read: Vista SP1 with a different config) have since turned to grudging respect, because it's proven time and time again to be more reliable, and easier to configure, than the Kubuntu install he maintains.
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Ledsmith »

dellstart wrote:"The real hurdle is to get Vista's reputation behind them," he said.

Windows 7 keeps some of the significant design changes that debuted in Vista, but tosses out others.
Hey if take all that inforamation and you replace the word "Vista" with "ME" and "Windows 7" with "XP" we could travel back in time 8 years or so. This is becoming and annoying pattern with Microsoft. I know I'm getting annoyed with Microsoft releasing a "finished" product that is essentially a beta and then a few years latter releasing the actual finished product.
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Spec8472 »

Ledsmith wrote:Hey if take all that inforamation and you replace the word "Vista" with "ME" and "Windows 7" with "XP" we could travel back in time 8 years or so. This is becoming and annoying pattern with Microsoft. I know I'm getting annoyed with Microsoft releasing a "finished" product that is essentially a beta and then a few years latter releasing the actual finished product.
Except that Vista is nothing like ME, either in Technology or Marketing.

ME was an incremental update to the Windows 9x line that was put in place as an interim gap before Windows XP was launched - it still ran ontop of DOS, and it still had all the major stability issues that the 9x line had (if not worse).

Windows XP was the first consumer targeted OS (if you exclude Windows 2000) that ran on the NT kernel - a completely different line from Windows 9x.

If you think back, you'll remember everyone bitched and whined about XP breaking compatability with applications that "work just fine under 98/ME". (despite the developers of those apps being mostly to blame for poor quality software development). Everyone also complained about the lack of XP drivers for many many pieces of hardware.

A similar thing happend with Vista - applications that were written incorrectly failed or caused UAC prompts, and many manufacturers didn't start looking at providing drivers until release.

So, things will be different with Windows 7, since it is just an incremental update to Vista. Really they could call it Vista SP3 and people wouldn't really be concerned, except that it's got a few differences in the UI.
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Mistra
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Mistra »

and you have to pay for this new "patch"

which is the microsoft way.

i'm looking forward to windows 7, cause no matter what you say, vista sucks overall i haven't seen a computer yet that hasn't had any problems with it.
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Hearly »

Mistra wrote:and you have to pay for this new "patch"

which is the microsoft way.

i'm looking forward to windows 7, cause no matter what you say, vista sucks overall i haven't seen a computer yet that hasn't had any problems with it.
I run Vista 64bit, and I have no problems per say, once I turned off the User stuff, very few annoying pop-ups asking permission to write something to the drive, etc..

To me Vista is just as stable as XP was, Now on my older machine I never had any problems but it was a major memory hog, with the new machine I have 8gig ram, and quad-core 3.0ghz so I don't have any of those issues anymore.
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Mistra
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Mistra »

don't get me wrong, i'm using vista on my laptop and on my computer it runs ok with few errors, but then again, the 64bit version is the more stable version (go figure)
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Spec8472 »

Mistra wrote:don't get me wrong, i'm using vista on my laptop and on my computer it runs ok with few errors, but then again, the 64bit version is the more stable version (go figure)
Partly because no hardware drivers will install on x64 versions unless they have been tested and signed by Microsoft.
So, a clean slate, with stong emphasis on ensuring quality.
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Gabriel »

Hmm.... I guess that as usual when my system finally dies, I will use their latest OS.

What I do find fustrating with vista is the fact that I keep having to get the display driver updated.
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Hearly »

Gabriel wrote:Hmm.... I guess that as usual when my system finally dies, I will use their latest OS.

What I do find fustrating with vista is the fact that I keep having to get the display driver updated.

What video card do you use? Nothing says you have to keep updating it, if you find a version that is stable stick with it.
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by boballab »

Hearly wrote:
Gabriel wrote:Hmm.... I guess that as usual when my system finally dies, I will use their latest OS.

What I do find fustrating with vista is the fact that I keep having to get the display driver updated.

What video card do you use? Nothing says you have to keep updating it, if you find a version that is stable stick with it.
The only problem with that is if you're into online gaming. As newer cards come out online games such as WOW, Shadowbane et al release major patches to enable use of those cards and/or update gameplay content. As such you have to update your drivers, If you don't the games will crash or have major errors. I have had to update my drivers numerous times over the years due to playing those games, some times as much as 3 times in a 2 month period.
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Phantom »

boballab wrote:
Hearly wrote:
Gabriel wrote:Hmm.... I guess that as usual when my system finally dies, I will use their latest OS.

What I do find fustrating with vista is the fact that I keep having to get the display driver updated.

What video card do you use? Nothing says you have to keep updating it, if you find a version that is stable stick with it.
The only problem with that is if you're into online gaming. As newer cards come out online games such as WOW, Shadowbane et al release major patches to enable use of those cards and/or update gameplay content. As such you have to update your drivers, If you don't the games will crash or have major errors. I have had to update my drivers numerous times over the years due to playing those games, some times as much as 3 times in a 2 month period.

But thats Not Vista's Fault (Ugg Did i just defend Vista?.... Smacks head)

Anyways thats Not the Op systems ( Read Vista's ) Fault ..
it's the Game programers and the Video Hardware manufactur's Faults.

So much is Blamed incorectly on the Op System's

If you run your computer the Same way it came or Just without any Add on software
and it crashes then Yea maybe it's the OpSystems Fault.

But Start adding 3rd Party Software and surf the Web .........then you can't be sure who is to blame




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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by boballab »

I guess I wasn't clear about my point due to the way the quotes in that post are. I'm not saying its the OS's fault for the crashes and such, that stuff happens with every operating system as updates come about. The point I was making deals with the point of not updating drivers. Basically you can only go so long without updating drivers, if you update/upgrade any of the programs and hardware you use. Technically I could walk to my closet and pull out my old 386 and its 14.4 modem, find a dial up service and using Dos with windows 3.1 surf the web. However it wouldn't be a very good experience and I couldn't do many of the things I like to do online. The changing requirements for the things you want to do online such as gaming force you to update or do without. The reason the games are that way are economically driven. Take WOW as an example if they didn't update to use the best graphics available they would lose subscribers to other newer games. Hard to realize but in the gaming world WOW is an old platform but is still very strong due that they constantly update their content and graphics. With that happening people want to be able to utilize that and go out and get a newer card or use a older card but must update their drivers to be able to play. It is just the nature of the beast and mistakes happen and a lot of the mistakes that the game developers and companies such as Nvidia are running across is due to the way Microsoft handled switching to Vista. They didn't really work closely with these third parties, so no its not the OS per se that is at fault but really Microsoft for their typical business pratice of just throwing a new OS out on the market without working with other companies and giving them a chance to make drivers ahead of time for that OS. If Microsoft would pull their head out of their ass and quit trying to do their own in house peripheal driver programing and just go to those companies with an early version of the OS and let them develope the drivers we would all benefit. One Microsoft could "gasp" probably strike a deal for less money then they spend in house developing drivers and get drivers for the newest upgrades that those companies are planning ahead of time so that when the OS hits the market "gasp" they all work together with the latest cards and printers. The best example Microsoft should follow for this was the way Sony handled the PS2. When Sony first developed the PS2 they gave early copies of the operating system to the major games developers so that there would be games out when the hardare hit the shelves. When the PS2 went live the only problems were not enough of them and some hardware quality control, software wise the games worked and the PS2 became a sucess. However we know that control freak Gates would never go for that now would he. Bottom line when it comes to hardware peripheals such as video cards the companies that make them do a better and faster job of programming drivers for them then Microsoft. The only time I had a driver crash a video card was when I tried to run the latest Microsoft programmed driver for my Nvidia 5500 card. Went back to my old Nvidia driver and two weeks later Nvidia came out with a new driver for the card and it worked perfectly with the promised results that Microsoft claimed, while Microsoft was still trying to fix their in house programmed driver,2 months later they finally came out with one. Thats the whole point how much money did Microsoft spend devolping the first broken driver, then fielding customer complaints and finally fixing it when compared with how much Nvidia spent and getting it right the first time? Remember this is for something that was free to the customers downloading it. If MS just negotiated with Nvidia to make the driver in the first place for their newst doo-hicky and updates for it, they would save money in the long run by freeing up programmers to work on other in house projects, less customer service complaints and wouldn't need their own download service tied up with drivers that would be Nvidia and other such companies function by contract (which they already are doing so no new expenditure on their part). For the Card manufactuers they make a little money by providing the drivers, this in turn would lessen the overall cost of the cards being made, which would lessen the need to continually raise prices on new cards. As of right now the price of the cards is what pays the programmers at these places to make free driver upgrades for the customers.
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

Post by Hearly »

Shrug, I play wow, I've played it since release and never really had any issues with video drivers, now granted when it started I was using like a 7800gt video card, then I got an 8800gtx and now I'm using a 260gtx video card (plan on getting a 2nd one very soon) And when I did upgrade the cards, I never had any problems with graphics/drivers.

Most times when I had problems with wow it was because of the add-ons not being compatible with the patch/update.
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Re: Microsoft says next Windows won't be as annoying

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Thats the thing you kept buying new cards as they came out and with those new cards came new updated drivers to run those cards. I played Shadowbane from 2003 until 2006 and for about 4 months of 2008. In between those times I played WoW and only bought a new card once in 2004 I just updated the drivers for that card over the last 4 years so I could keep playing. What It is is that for less money I still get to play the same games(so far), but with less graphics then you do. To each his own, but the point is you still updated your drivers by buying the new card because the old drivers don't support the new card and the Card manfacturer ship a driver with them. So if you ran the disk that came with the card you updated your drivers. Now here is where the real idiocacy comes into play. The base architecture of the OS didn't change over that period of time, ie I was and still am running xp. So as the new cards came out Nvidia and the other card manufactuers updated the drivers so the new cards worked with XP. At the same time Microsoft went and bought the new cards and started programming drivers so that those cards would work with Xp, although the manufactuers already had drivers for those cards when they shipped. Now those updates for the drivers are given away free so the money spent programming those drivers has to be made up for in the sales of the OS and other Microsoft products, so the price doesn't come down on those products as they normally would on an older product in the market place. So by duplicating the effort of the Card manufactuters they have an excuse to keep the price of their older products artifically high, thus negating market forces and adding cost to any upcomming new products. Basically Penny wise but Pound foolish on Microsofts part if their was a viable competitor in the market but because of their virtual monopoly they get away with it.
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