Earth Bond, Chapter 11 - Discussion

[miraborn]

There has long been speculation among us Humans that there may be another sentient species on the planet - Dolphins. When I read the following statement:

The discovery of a second sentient species on Earth challenged human religious, philosophical, and political viewpoints, some of them at the highest levels.

I began to wonder if the Dragons, specifically WD, had any similar thoughts. Have the WDs observed the apparent social interaction and learning skills of Dolphins and other sea creatures? Do any WDs have aquatic pets?

[NSC]

Small nitpick, when editing gets done. The Biblical book is Revelation, not Revelations. There is no "s" on it. I think the proper title for the book is The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

[Fel]

You dare nitpick me?

YOU MUST BE DESTROYED!

*ultramegawtfbbqsaucesmackofDEWM!*

Er...sorry. You ARE right, I'll turn YOU MUST BE DESTROYED! on that pesky S.

[expedient]

It is also called Apocalypse. In this instance it is referred to as "the book of Revelations" through the internal dialogue of Jenny's thought process. It is common, for those who do not study the Bible, to refer to the book as Revelations so it is entirely appropriate for Jenny to think of it by that title. As many people do.

It would be just as pointless to blame the translators and publishers of the Bible for not referring to the book by one of its full titles:

• Book of the Revelation of Saint John the Divine
• the Apocalypse of John
• the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ

Or maybe they should title it "The Revelation" or "John's Revelation" to avoid the confusion of the singular word in english.

In my opinion it doesn't matter. It is irrelevant which is "correct" as the book is commonly called "Revelations". Or we could all just read it in ancient Greek to avoid these misinterpretations.


You might also care to note that miraborn had already started a discussion thread on Earth Bond chapter 11. Resolved.

[Fel]

Actually, no. The water dragons hunt dolphins for food, just like just about everything in the ocean. They do know that dolphins are highly intelligent, but to a water dragon, they're also delicious.

Guess how their philosophy falls on that one.

[expedient]

I'd be interested to read how the earth dragon's version of the story of the First Village differs from this version. Key word: cowardly.

[ANTIcarrot]

Sessara had rather rudely learned that all her strength and power and might were no match for the backassery of the United States Federal Government’s planet-sized ball of red tape.

I was kinda hoping to see that, in person, rather than hear about it afterwards.

I was kinda hoping to see something like this in person, rather than hear about it afterwards. Sooner or later an adult dragon is going to step over the mark, and someone will have to give them a tail slap. Problem is that there are two sorts of scorpions in the desert. Big ones that can only hurt you, and small ones that can only kill you. Humans are most definately in the latter.

“I think we can arrange that, esteemed council member,” Arlen agreed, which Michaels typed for him. “You choose which humans you wish to test, and we’ll put them at your disposal.”

I'm trying to decide if it's deeply cynical or simply deeply realistic that a dragon knows more about basic science than an important member of the US government.

Hatred is the human way, not the dragon way.

Always nice to see racism alive and well. I fear that 'wise old sage' may be much more of the latter and much less of the former than she realises.

[Fel]

Arlen's a diplomat, not a scientist. You shouldn't expect him to know the ins and outs of the scientific method.

And of course dragons are racist. Even Kell is racist. They never pretended to be anything BUT racist.

[ANTIcarrot]

Arlen's a diplomat, not a scientist. You shouldn't expect him to know the ins and outs of the scientific method.

I thought Arlen was the Secretary of State? That's a political position, not a Diplomatic one.
Either way he's been through a first world education system, and he's in a position of power where he may have to make important decisions that may affect millions, or hundreds of millions or billions. He needs to understand how to tell truth from bullshit and if he can't do that then he is not qualified for his office.

I began to wonder if the Dragons, specifically WD, had any similar thoughts.

I suspect the majority of Dragons have trouble enough seeing humans as sentient creatures.

Oh yes, and about dolphins...

[konman]

So All of the Hunter’s as well as Jenny & Family and Arlen (Sec State) are capable of Magic. All of the hunters have been at times near the Earth Dragons. With Jenny having the most exposure.
In the Tale told at the end of the chapter it stated that the Earth Dragons stayed home while the other dragons left.
I wonder if exposure to the Earth Dragons enables the Magic in humans as well as in the other Dragons.
This would explain why few humans in the past were able to perform Magic, few of them were exposed to earth dragons. Where now everyone tested so far has had that exposure.

[Lochar]

Arlen's a diplomat, not a scientist. You shouldn't expect him to know the ins and outs of the scientific method.

And of course dragons are racist. Even Kell is racist. They never pretended to be anything BUT racist.

Well, yes, they all have issues with the other dragon types. But the real question is, are they speciesist?

[ANTIcarrot]

So All of the Hunter’s as well as Jenny & Family and Arlen (Sec State) are capable of Magic. All of the hunters have been at times near the Earth Dragons. With Jenny having the most exposure.

That certainly beats Jenny's own idea about how rich and successful people are in some inmeasurable way naturally superior to everyone else. Gee, I wonder what her politics are?

[Fel]

You slightly misunderstand her idea, carrot.

She doesn't theorize that only the rich are magicians, she theorizes that people who have great ambition and drive to succeed share magical talent. None of the soldiers among the Hunters are exactly rich, but they ARE some of the finest soldiers around, highly skilled, highly disciplined, and highly driven to be the best.

[ANTIcarrot]

It made her curious. The Hunters were the best they were at what they did, and now they’d found out that all of them had magical talent. Arlen Kent too had magical talent. Maybe, she speculated privately, those who excelled had qualities related to the fact that they had magical aptitude. She had a feeling that President Walker and the First Lady would also have magical aptitude, if her theory panned out, for they were exceptional people, ambitious and capable.

She doesn't theorize that only the rich are magicians, she theorizes that people who have great ambition and drive to succeed share magical talent. None of the soldiers among the Hunters are exactly rich, but they ARE some of the finest soldiers around, highly skilled, highly disciplined, and highly driven to be the best.

I could have been clearer there. My intention was rich and/or succesful. However... Given US military pay rates, the hunters are unlikely to be poor. Jenny's O-6, and she's has over 16 years service? So her income is just over the 6 figure mark, and most of her friends won't be far behind. I realise there are several layers of 'super rich' above her, but I'd call that rich. http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp - table contains monthly income

But it's still the same problem of Cause and Effect. Does magic cause ambition? Or ambition cause magic? Given that magic manifests in children, it's unlikely to be the latter. If magical talent is in any way inheritable then we're into Master Race territory, and this is a problem. (1) It's more than a little racist. (2) In a story where you have made racism a key theme, and the reader is thus paying more atention to it than otherwise, if it's unintential then it's bloody distracting!

Thus leading people like me to make a mountain out of a molehill. (And yes, I know I'm doing it when I do.)

[SYED]

What exactly can the CD do to retaliate? THe ED are beyond their reach. Even if they could find the tunnel, in an underground confrontation, ED will beat the CD all the time. THe ED have communications with the out side world, I wonder if they will set up communications with the Egg guardians via the television and internet access they have. The chromatic will soon feel the food logistical constraints tightening, which will increase when the former council SD makes his power play

I dont think its exposure to dragons that cause magic, I think it is something they are born with. My bet is that those human magicians, are simply the survivor of purges, hiding and having kids, forgetting they ever had power. What if instead of magic being in driven people, it simply gives them healthier constitutions. This would have allowed them and their kids to survives the harsh conditions of the past.

Would the USA allow dragons to keep one of their nuclear submarines? Set up a trade for equal amount of building materials. Smaller pieces would be easier to fit in the tunnel.

Some time in the future, the tunnel from the island circuit and the one that leads into the city will be made into a better system. One of those under water habitats and tunnels, to link the two tunnel systems, as well as give the water drakes access to their tunnels and be an entry way for materials.

ED will be far more open to build things for trade, every thing they built on the island surface has been smashed, so trading for the material needed. So plants, trees and animals.